NutritionContinuous Glucose Monitor (CGM)

RobSmith
Posts: 137
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:34 am
Location: UK

Continuous Glucose Monitor (CGM)

Post by RobSmith » Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:26 pm

A couple of weeks before I started my recent 3 day fast I decided to do a few experiments using a CGM for the first time. 
As a result, I thought I'd share my findings with everyone as a couple of things of note emerged. 

First up though not of much use, I had a severe pain in one of my feet one day several hours after I'd last eaten and it was quite amazing how the cortisol release caused the liver to start converting fat into glucose and shoving it out into the bloodstream. The peak blood glucose level reached during this actually equalled the highest level reached after any form of eating! 

Next I wanted to see if Berberine was of any use in lowering blood sugar levels so on two consecutive days I ate exactly the same first meal of the day of a large bowel of porridge covered in strawberries and blueberries, at exactly the same time of day, with the first day without any Berberine and the second day with the max recommended dose.  Interestingly the blood glucose level on the graph traced out exactly the same in terms of peak level and time to peak and time back to base level. 
In other words, Berberine appeared to have no effect at all. Conclusion is, if you take Berberine simply under the impression that it will keep your blood glucose levels down I wouldn't bother. 
(Obviously this doesn't mean to say that Berberine doesn't offer the same other effects of life extension that Metformin is believed to offer but that is impossible to measure here).

Next up I wanted to see if Allulose works as a zero calorie sugar substitute (and it doesn't have the bitter aftertaste of Stevia) without inducing any insulin effect. 
For this experiment it was three heaped spoons of sugar in a coffee (by the way I don't normally have any) early one morning with the inevitable sugar spike followed by the insulin kicking in rapidly to bring it back down. Next day at the same time I repeated but with four spoons of Allulose instead of the sugar, and the great news was the blood sugar simply continued to flat-line. (Nothing was wrong with the CGM as it showed the usual climb after another bowel of porridge and berries several hours later). 
So the conclusion on that is, if you have kids like me who love to bake, throw out the sugar and have them bake with Allulose - all tastes the same and everyone much healthier all round as a result. 

Finally, I then went into a keto diet (in advance of doing the fast) and the glucose variability was much lower and the overall level trended lower as the body adapted into ketosis. 

Overall I felt this was a very useful exercise. I won't continually wear a CGM (they aren't cheap) but might repeat once a year just to make sure everything is working ok. 
Hopefully there might be something of use in the above for others. 
 
 
 


canadahealthy
Posts: 340
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:31 pm

Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor (CGM)

Post by canadahealthy » Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:27 pm

That's interesting about the Berberine.

I am not sure what it's mechanism is.. how fast it works... what is actually does.. when one should take it.

But I have always been sensitive to sugars.. in alcohol, in coffee, in desserts. And I have to say, i do feel that the sugar is being regulated when i take it.

I am not sure i even recall what I read that convinced to me to take it - but i do know i chose to try it as i really don't have access to Metformin. I don't think a Canadian doctor will prescribe it to a non diabetic.

So i will do more research, that is for sure.
NewLifeScience
Posts: 415
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:17 pm

Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor (CGM)

Post by NewLifeScience » Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:32 pm

RobSmith wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:26 pm
A couple of weeks before I started my recent 3 day fast I decided to do a few experiments using a CGM for the first time. 
As a result, I thought I'd share my findings with everyone as a couple of things of note emerged. 

First up though not of much use, I had a severe pain in one of my feet one day several hours after I'd last eaten and it was quite amazing how the cortisol release caused the liver to start converting fat into glucose and shoving it out into the bloodstream. The peak blood glucose level reached during this actually equalled the highest level reached after any form of eating! 

Next I wanted to see if Berberine was of any use in lowering blood sugar levels so on two consecutive days I ate exactly the same first meal of the day of a large bowel of porridge covered in strawberries and blueberries, at exactly the same time of day, with the first day without any Berberine and the second day with the max recommended dose.  Interestingly the blood glucose level on the graph traced out exactly the same in terms of peak level and time to peak and time back to base level. 
In other words, Berberine appeared to have no effect at all. Conclusion is, if you take Berberine simply under the impression that it will keep your blood glucose levels down I wouldn't bother. 
(Obviously this doesn't mean to say that Berberine doesn't offer the same other effects of life extension that Metformin is believed to offer but that is impossible to measure here).

Next up I wanted to see if Allulose works as a zero calorie sugar substitute (and it doesn't have the bitter aftertaste of Stevia) without inducing any insulin effect. 
For this experiment it was three heaped spoons of sugar in a coffee (by the way I don't normally have any) early one morning with the inevitable sugar spike followed by the insulin kicking in rapidly to bring it back down. Next day at the same time I repeated but with four spoons of Allulose instead of the sugar, and the great news was the blood sugar simply continued to flat-line. (Nothing was wrong with the CGM as it showed the usual climb after another bowel of porridge and berries several hours later). 
So the conclusion on that is, if you have kids like me who love to bake, throw out the sugar and have them bake with Allulose - all tastes the same and everyone much healthier all round as a result. 

Finally, I then went into a keto diet (in advance of doing the fast) and the glucose variability was much lower and the overall level trended lower as the body adapted into ketosis. 

Overall I felt this was a very useful exercise. I won't continually wear a CGM (they aren't cheap) but might repeat once a year just to make sure everything is working ok. 
Hopefully there might be something of use in the above for others. 
 
 
 

 
Well I think you have burst a bubble for me Rob. But I need to work with facts. And it seems you have some facts about Berberine that suggest it isn't doing what i though it did. Certainly i thought it was stabilizing my blood sugar levels. And to be honest it felt like it was doing it. I guess that is a little placebo effect.

So i am going to research more and see what exactly Berberine is supposed to be doing. Because if it isn't helping regulate blood sugar, via insulin or anything else, I don't see a need to take it and may have to look elsewhere or consider your sugar alternative.

I don't think i can have access to Metformin as a non-diabetic in Canada. Also i don't fully know the safety of taking it as a non diabetic.

I do know that sugar is largely the enemy. Followed closely by carbs. And by avoiding both, along with fasting, I have lost the weight of a medium sized dog.

Thanks for the info - cool experiment!
NMN

Astragalus
Berberine
Blueberry extract
Green Tea Extract
Gotu Kola
Liposomal Curcumin / Resveratrol
Melatonin
Methyl B12
Methylfolate
Sulforaphane
Vitamin C
Vitamin D
Vitamin E tocotrienols
Vitamin K2
Virgin Olive Oil
RobSmith
Posts: 137
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:34 am
Location: UK

Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor (CGM)

Post by RobSmith » Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:06 am

Hi NLS,

You are absolutely right in wanting to work  with facts, and of course the most pertinent facts are what works for you, not necessarily what does or does not work for me. 
Regarding my experiment with Berberine, the fact for me was exactly as I stated. I didn't have a chance to start varying the time when I took the Berberine (against the recommendation on the bottle) in advance of the eating of the meal and maybe this is a future experiment I will try.
I would wholly recommend though that you purchase a CGM and conduct the experiment on yourself, as it is possible that you might see an effect from the Berberine that I won't see just because of our own peculiar physiological makeups. For sure there was no placebo effect for me as I felt no different.
Being in UK, like you I have no access to Metformin. I think though even if I did, I would only take it in front of big celebrations so I could consume the "treats" whilst at all other times, totally agree that sugar is the enemy, so I just avoid it. In the meantime, with Berberine not working for me, post any celebration event I will now be doing a significant water only fast to hopefully undo any "sugar damage"! 
 
 
zmm
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:21 am

Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor (CGM)

Post by zmm » Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:52 am

I have played around with a CGM multiple times.
Keep in mind that if using the freestyle, you probably want to finger prick once or twice to see how accurate it is. I see all the time that it can calibrate itself as much as 20 points off, and then i need to mentally just add that amount. It will still be correct directionally, but the actual number may not be so accurate.

Berberine does seem to help, especially when I take the one from natures pure that also has cinnamon and chromium in it. One question I would have is how long before ingesting the sugar did you take it? you probably need to take it atleast 30 min before, for it to be in place to blunt the sugar affect. what really helps blunt sugar is acarbose, which you take together with your first byte of the carb. 50mg of acarbose for me, can pretty much wipe out a carb heavy meal. 

Based on CGM data, there are other things that make a big difference as well. Taking a brisk 15min walk after eating can make a huge difference. Eating carbs after a workout makes a difference. Eating the carbs at the end of the meal vs on an empty stomach.

I have also done multiple 3 days water (plus black coffee and electrolytes) fasts, while wearing a cgm. Glucose seems to really flatline by day 3, and the only thing that causes it to rise is exercise or sauna use. Ketones as well continue to rise as the fast gets longer
RobSmith
Posts: 137
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:34 am
Location: UK

Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor (CGM)

Post by RobSmith » Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:39 am

Indeed, I was aware of the accuracy issue, which is why I didn't quote any absolute numbers (even though mine did appear to be spot on - i wonder if Abbott Labs has now sorted that accuracy issue out) but directionally as you say, it will be correct. 
I did take the berberine 30 mins before, and I do want to experiment with different timings in the future which could possibly show an effect.
Acarbose appears to work like Metformin and looks like a prescription drug like Metformin so not sold over the counter in UK.
The only thing that pushed my glucose up when fasting is when something triggered a spike in cortisol - another reason to avoid stress!
 
 
zmm
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:21 am

Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor (CGM)

Post by zmm » Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:46 pm

I get acarbose without a scrip from inhousepharmacy.vu
It works differently, as it inhibits the enzyme that turns carbs into glucose.

You take it with the first byte, and if you take 50-100mg you get no spike at all
Its quick acting, so you dont have preplan before you eat

What brand berberine did you take? did you take an extended release form?
Im wondering, since it should have at least done something
RobSmith
Posts: 137
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:34 am
Location: UK

Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor (CGM)

Post by RobSmith » Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:31 am

zmm wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:46 pm
I get acarbose without a scrip from inhousepharmacy.vu
It works differently, as it inhibits the enzyme that turns carbs into glucose.

You take it with the first byte, and if you take 50-100mg you get no spike at all
Its quick acting, so you dont have preplan before you eat

What brand berberine did you take? did you take an extended release form?
Im wondering, since it should have at least done something

 
Focus Supplements in the UK - it's called Berberine HCL (not sure what the "HCL" means.)
Ill check out inhousepharmacy - thanks.
 
RobSmith
Posts: 137
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:34 am
Location: UK

Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor (CGM)

Post by RobSmith » Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:18 am

Reading this 

https://www.longevity.technology/enzyme ... -diabetes/

makes me think there are other good reasons to continue to take Berberine, even if it does nothing to suppress glucose levels in the blood.
 
NewLifeScience
Posts: 415
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:17 pm

Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor (CGM)

Post by NewLifeScience » Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:08 pm

RobSmith wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:18 am
Reading this 

https://www.longevity.technology/enzyme ... -diabetes/

makes me think there are other good reasons to continue to take Berberine, even if it does nothing to suppress glucose levels in the blood.
 

 
Hi Rob
I appreciate you giving this a thorough look. I think I owe it to myself to get a CGM and get to know it. 

i have essentially one bad sugar habit - and that is adding it to a good strong coffee. I am also curious what happens when I weaken my resolve and eat simple carbs like bread or potatoes...

I still recall the 'stabilized' feeling I got from berberine and I am curious why i felt that way.

sugar is such a bad additive that i want to try tracking my levels.

If I do I will add to this.
NMN

Astragalus
Berberine
Blueberry extract
Green Tea Extract
Gotu Kola
Liposomal Curcumin / Resveratrol
Melatonin
Methyl B12
Methylfolate
Sulforaphane
Vitamin C
Vitamin D
Vitamin E tocotrienols
Vitamin K2
Virgin Olive Oil
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