NMNNMN & Learning and my initial experience.

mnatchet
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:43 pm

NMN & Learning and my initial experience.

Post by mnatchet » Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:00 pm

I have recently purchased the Large Bottle of NMN Sublingual tablets and the Optimizers to come along with them. Currently I am taking a daily dose of 1000mg NMN and 2 capsule of each optimizers.

I am aged 31 years old, live a very active lifestyle(boxing) and recently really looking after my health. It wasn't always this way, I could say I have caused some damage to my brain and health in the past with some poor lifestyle choices.

Currently i follow the Ketogenic diet and use Bulletproof Coffee in the morning as a stimulant. My goal is Performance without sacrificing health.

I have noticed that with my first NMN sublingual pill i had a small headrush(not sure if from the sugar or placebo+excitement) and after it i felt like my memories of some motor skills from almost five years back were coming into consciousness(has to do with computer mouse use for professional video games which I am not involved in for almost 6 years). I wanted to know if anybody experienced anything similar?

Mike


PAUSED NMN for now
Optimizers 2x each per day

DIet:

Ketogenic diet excluding cheese

Excercise:

High + Very high Volume (Boxing + Strength + Endurance)

Age:

31 Male
Newage
Posts: 890
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:22 pm

Re: NMN & Learning and my initial experience.

Post by Newage » Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:55 pm

Welcome to the forum Mike.
You may have jumped in a bit quick with 1 gram of NMN straight off the bat.
I think most of us have built up to that dose over a short period of time.
Yes it seems that the initial increase in energy along with clarity and the feeling of wellness are more profound with the initial supplementation of the molecule.
Everything “levels out” after a period of time and you are then taking NMN for the long term benefits..
Feel free to fire in other questions to the forum if you are not sure on any other aspects.
mnatchet
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:43 pm

Re: NMN & Learning and my initial experience.

Post by mnatchet » Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:27 pm

This is my 3rd day of taking 1000mg and I have noticed that i felt amazing in the morning when taking my first 4 pills in doses of 2 / 1 / 1 over 6 hours but after my nap taking 2 more I started to feel a little wierd, my heart rate went up and i didnt have the good feel i would usually get. I followed up with another one in the evening with even worse results.

I am not sure if I am taking too much or i might have some kind of allergic reaction to the sweetners?

Maybe I am just taking too much for sublingual. Currently have a dazy headache. ALso was measuring my HRV with the phone and my body is having a fight or flight reaction. Not sure what to make of this...
PAUSED NMN for now
Optimizers 2x each per day

DIet:

Ketogenic diet excluding cheese

Excercise:

High + Very high Volume (Boxing + Strength + Endurance)

Age:

31 Male
Newage
Posts: 890
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:22 pm

Re: NMN & Learning and my initial experience.

Post by Newage » Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:31 pm

Only my view Mike.
I think too much too soon...
It seems that most of us began on 250 to 500 mg of NMN per day and slowly increased from there.
Personally I would go back to 250 mg daily
(2 tabs per day) then increase by one tablet daily each week...
eg: 2nd week 3 tabs daily
3rd week 4 tabs daily
And so on until you find your sweet spot somewhere between 500mg to 1000mg..
Some people find NMN too stimulating if taken after 3 or 4pm..
See how you go.. :shock:
mnatchet
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:43 pm

Re: NMN & Learning and my initial experience.

Post by mnatchet » Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:14 am

I got a little bit scared at night, due to complete loss in performance. But you are right. I jumped to taking 1000mg Sublingually, considering david takes only 1000 mg orally... I also had a certain feeling in the liver before i was passing out... I took a teaspoon of honey and had a great sleep.

Measured my HRV readings today using a wellness app on the phone and i seem to be back to normal as if after a sickness.. Feeling a small thing in my throat since yesterday. One thing I am sure of is be careful of taking too much when starting off, because the results i got from first doses was really surreal. I felt in the moment and anxieties dissipated, but with this continued high does something changed.

I have to figured this out. I am going to call ABN and do as much research as possible.
PAUSED NMN for now
Optimizers 2x each per day

DIet:

Ketogenic diet excluding cheese

Excercise:

High + Very high Volume (Boxing + Strength + Endurance)

Age:

31 Male
OzSport
Posts: 279
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:08 am

Re: NMN & Learning and my initial experience.

Post by OzSport » Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:20 pm

Newage wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:31 pm
Only my view Mike.
I think too much too soon...
It seems that most of us began on 250 to 500 mg of NMN per day and slowly increased from there.
Personally I would go back to 250 mg daily
(2 tabs per day) then increase by one tablet daily each week...
eg: 2nd week 3 tabs daily
3rd week 4 tabs daily
And so on until you find your sweet spot somewhere between 500mg to 1000mg..
Some people find NMN too stimulating if taken after 3 or 4pm..
See how you go.. :shock:
I agree! Start with the smaller dosage and work your way up as your body adjusts to it. How is your water intake and sleep schedule? I find if I feel a bit off, I always go back to the basics and assess how I'm going with nutrition and water, sleep, and exercise! If one of those are off kilter, I re-adjust and monitor. :D
rhett
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2019 1:39 pm

Re: NMN & Learning and my initial experience.

Post by rhett » Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:31 am

Just another recommendtion to start small and slow and build up to find your optimal level. 1000mg at 31 does seem probably excessive. I'm 41 and have found 250-375 daily to be my sweet spot.
mnatchet
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:43 pm

Re: NMN & Learning and my initial experience.

Post by mnatchet » Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:58 pm

Here is an update with the details of my subjective and objective experience with this so called adverse reaction.

This post is in no way designed to fear monger anybody from trying NMN Sublingual. My only goal is to raise awareness of the possible side effects in some people.

I will revise my total start date of use and total dose per day. I will include my diet, age, sleep quality, HRV reading(introduced on day 4), activity level. I warn that some of my subjective reactions might simply be placebo effects, however I am fairly sensitive to any changes and I had experience with recreational drugs in the past so I am usually very sensitive to any chemical changes that occur in me by the administration of drugs/supplements.

I take a daily dose of 3000IU of Vitamin D with 3750 EPA/DHA omega 3 (1TBSP)
Magensium Chloride 1TBSP Morning
Fructiboron - 1TSP Morning
Vitamin A + D3 - 1000IU

Diet - Ketogenic/Low Carb
With very good modulations of fats (MCT oil, Olive Oil, Grassfed Butter, Ghee)
Lots of cruciferous vegetables and Saulteed greens with Organic Lean Proteins (Bison,Beef,Wild Salmon,Wild Sockeye Smoke Salmon)
Lots of Cauliflower, Broccoli, Cucumber, Radish, etc...
Coffee - 1 cup per day (Bulletproof recipe)

Sleep 6-8 hours per night

Exercise - Strength, Boxing, Endurance.

Age:31

Before taking NMN was feeling fantastic.

Goal of using NMN: Repair Damage caused by poor lifestyle choices in the 20s.

-----

Day 1 - Dec9th 2019 8:00pm - 250MG + AMPK activator(2) + (2) Defender
I have received my package, 240 Sublingual packets, 1NAD+/AMPK activator(60), 1NAD+ Energizer(60), 1NAD+ Defender(60).

I took my first sublingual pill and i felt an instant rush through my head. It really felt surreal, I instantly sat down on my computer and i remembered a motor pattern from 7 years ago.. A patter of moving the mouse when I used to play a competitive video game.

No negative effects.

Day 2 - Dec 10 1000MG + 2 of each Optimizer

I took 1 pill 8 times daily with breaks. I felt positive rush after every single tablets that lasted for 30-60 minutes, I felt calmness, reduction of anxiety, focus and real clear rational organizational thinking. The type i feel when I am completely in the moment.

At night I went to train boxing, felt really there and everything was great. Sleep was somewhat affected but nothing major.

Day 3 - Dec 11 750MG I took 1 pill 6 times a day spread out.

Still feeling a real positive effect every single time I take a sublingual pill. which subsided when i hit my evening doses so i didnt take more.

Day 4 - Dec 12 i Took 875MG ADVERSE EFFECTS BEGAN

In the morning i took a double dose 250MG in 1 shot, and felt my usual energy boost with clarity.. I continued to fast and followed by 2x 1 more in the next few hours. There was no issues

Once I took a nap and woke up and took another double dose of 125x2mg I felt Brain Fog and a negative rush feeling in my head. I could not focus and something felt wrong.

I started reading side effects and trying to figure out what is going on.

1. First i thought it was possible degradation of the NMN. To which ABN has given a clear answer that it has it in a much more stable form.
2. I think it is possible that i was having some form of allergic reaction since my HRV reading with my phone camera were giving an acute stress fight or flight response.
3. ABN was very responsive and helpful. They have offered exchanges for sweetened products and were very professional.

I took a teaspoon of honey and went to bed to recover.


Day 5 125MG

I woke up too my HRV measurements with Iphone app and reading were back to semi normal. As if I just beat a sickness.

I decided to try another 125MG to outrule some form of dosage issue with the 2AMPK/NAD+ activators.

Again my HRV Markers completely tanked. AGAIN my body is producing a fight or flight response.

I put the tablets away and decided to take a break.

I poured over research with a goal of figuring out what could be going wrong. What i was able to find is that there are some people that warn against depletion of Methyl Donors when supplementation with NMN or NR. Apparently consumption of Methyl Folate(present in the Energizer) and TMG which can be purchased as a separate supplement.

I took 2 capsules of Energizer and within 20 minutes my markers on my HRV Iphone monitors returned back to baseline... ALL of THEM!

This gave me some excitement, due to the fact that my NMN journey is not yet over. I went ahead and purchased some over the counter Methyl folate and TMG, as well as decided to take a day off any more NMNs.

After following my diet and doing resistance training I still felt remnants of tingly feelings in my liver. I got back from grabbing the TMG and i felt a relief after taking 1000MG of it, even feeling sleepy.

I ate, and my HRV and biomarkers were fantastic. I went to bed eagerly to try NMN the next day to see if the approach of taking it with TMG was going to solve my methyl donor problem the NMN was potentially causing.

Day 6 - Final Test

I woke up and took HALF of 1 NMN and felt a slight energy boost but the stressful feeling was still there, however I took 500mg of TMG with the pill. I did not feel the positive effect but there was no obvious negative side effect. I took the rest of the pill, I felt the rush in my head but it was not a positive one. However my heart my biomarkers werent tanking but my body was still having an adverse reaction, only it felt blunted. I decided to take NMN orally with resverator 3x + 500mg Resveratol in yogurt as per David Sinclair.

I couldn't feel any noticeable positive difference but i definately did not feel any positive effects I was feeling in my original few days, infact my focus was being distracted by the blunted adverse reaction.

I took another 500mg of TMG just in case. There was slight relief... not surprising.

My own conclusion, is that NMN is somehow being methylated and not much of it is getting absorbed into NAD+ anymore.

I do not know why this is happening to me, but I am waiting for the unsweetened PURENMN+ to outrule the allergic reaction.
It is also possible i might have some form of gene polymorphism which I will know very shortly, I ran a 23&Me Test which I am going to run through Dr. Rhonda Patrick's database, and will know for sure.

I took the last tablet of 125 MG and Again i felt a sort of flushing feeling, and i decided that this sweetened sublingual NMN tablet isn't for me at least for a while.

My current goal is to bring myself back to Homestatis with good diet/sleep/exercise.

Shouldn't be too long.

I will see how the NAD+ will affect me once it comes in.

Stay tuned.
PAUSED NMN for now
Optimizers 2x each per day

DIet:

Ketogenic diet excluding cheese

Excercise:

High + Very high Volume (Boxing + Strength + Endurance)

Age:

31 Male
rhett
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2019 1:39 pm

Re: NMN & Learning and my initial experience.

Post by rhett » Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:57 pm

My advice would be to take everything down a few notches. Doses, complexity, diagnosing. We don’t even really understand how all this NAD+ enhancement works yet. It definitely seems like there’s something here and many have had good experiences, but I don’t think ever Dr Sinclair could direct you on specifics here.

I would just start small, titrate up, and see if there’s a dose that agrees with you. That’s about where the knowledge is at right now.
Drdavid
Posts: 721
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:59 am

Re: NMN & Learning and my initial experience.

Post by Drdavid » Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:22 pm

First it is great that you are pursing wellness but that pursuit is not a quick one. As Americans we are very impatient and want results quick and many of us think more is better. With these products the quick and more is better attitude can lead to very disappointing results. Anyone starting a regimen on NMN/NAD products should start slow low doses to see how their body is going to handle the products. Once that is known then slow increases in dosing is recommended to get to the goal. As a young person you should not need as much NMN as an older person so I think your current path of backing down and allowing your body to settle is a good one. Then you can start again and use low doses to get to where you want to go. Once you find your genetic profile let us know and the group will be happy to help.
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